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[00:00:36]
[00:00:36] #spongedev - Mon Oct 23 00:00:36 2017
[00:00:36] ---
[00:00:39] * Topic is ':Docs: https://docs.spongepowered.org | GitHub: https://github.com/SpongePowered | Rules: https://docs.spongepowered.org/en/about/rules.html | Code Style: https://git.io/spongecodestyle | Gradle help in #ForgeGradle | Javadocs: https://jd.spongepowered.org | SOS XIV: July 15th @ 21:00 UTC'
[00:00:39] * Set by Zidane!~Zidane@e3-1270v3.bl-ash0.1.1.2.10.k8.securedservers.com on Thu Jun 29 17:51:18
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[02:00:27] <@kashike> hi there ryantheleach :P
[02:16:14] * +ryantheleach waves
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[04:00:31] <@Spongie> <k​i​l​l​j​o​y​> Someone help interpret this issue? https://github.com/killjoy1221/TabbyChat-2/issues/86
[04:04:36] <pokechu22> That looks like an almost understandable issue (though I don't quite know what features tabbychat has; if prefixes and filters and stuff aren't part of it, then I wouldn't know), just not very gramatical
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[04:05:05] <+ryantheleach> killjoy, did you change anything relating to regex patterns
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[04:05:22] <pokechu22> "But when I add it manually as a filter it selects everything that starts with [" - probably they added a filter for something starting with "[Spy]", and if regex is being used that'd probably cause problems
[04:05:24] <+ryantheleach> Their issue is that [spy] is getting parsed as something other then the literal text '[spy]'
[04:05:45] <@Spongie> <k​i​l​l​j​o​y​> possibly. I remember making it literal by default, but old patterns should be updated to regex properly
[04:05:47] <@Spongie> <S​a​m​ ​�​�​> ^ Where is this from?
[04:06:36] <pokechu22> The tabbychat issue they linked?
[04:06:48] <+ryantheleach> They deleted their message
[04:15:30] <@Spongie> <k​i​l​l​j​o​y​> @Connor Hartley (Vectrix) thanks for the star
[04:15:50] <@Spongie> <C​o​n​n​o​r​ ​H​a​r​t​l​e​y​ ​(​V​e​c​t​r​i​x​)​> np 😄
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[06:32:43] <@Spongie> <A​s​h​e​r​s​l​a​b​> OOoooh nice, IntelliJ has a python plugin! (I need to do some freeRADIUS crap with python for fortigate auth)
[06:33:03] <@Spongie> <A​s​h​e​r​s​l​a​b​> because jRADIUS died.. 😦
[06:33:19] <@Spongie> <P​a​r​k​e​r​ ​(​M​e​r​o​n​a​t​)​> Has support for most languages through plugins or seperate IDEs.
[06:33:39] <@Spongie> <P​a​r​k​e​r​ ​(​M​e​r​o​n​a​t​)​> I use the platform for JavaScript, Dart, Go, Java, C/C++, and others when I need to.
[06:33:45] <@Spongie> <A​s​h​e​r​s​l​a​b​> yeah, pretty cool. altho the wiki says you have to have the paid version for PHP (which is outdated anyway)
[06:34:22] <@Spongie> <A​s​h​e​r​s​l​a​b​> JavaScript... need to get back into that one, got a few places i could use that...
[06:34:41] <@Spongie> <A​s​h​e​r​s​l​a​b​> at least i've learnt a few languages so it isn't too hard to pickup another..
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[13:53:34] <@Spongie> <k​i​l​l​j​o​y​> who wants to do php anyway?
[13:53:44] <@Spongie> <k​i​l​l​j​o​y​> Sure, we do it anyway, but does anyone really want php?
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[14:08:46] <@Spongie> <k​i​l​l​j​o​y​> Ooh, OptionalInt
[14:11:26] <TheHiggsBozo> how do I get the 'owner' of a block location, as indicated by the nbt data in the map for sponge-tracking of who placed a block.  I dont see any Keys that look appropriate, nor any location functions...
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[14:40:37] <@Spongie> <P​a​r​k​e​r​ ​(​M​e​r​o​n​a​t​)​> TheHiggsBozo, I'm fairly sure there is a BlockSnapshot#getCreator method
[14:40:58] <@Spongie> <P​a​r​k​e​r​ ​(​M​e​r​o​n​a​t​)​> It is not guaranteed to be there, but if it is you can try to get a user with the UUID
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[15:31:39] <sibomots> php is a dead-end, career wise. imho
[15:31:56] <@Spongie> <k​i​l​l​j​o​y​> everyone uses python or java, right?
[15:32:16] <sibomots> anything related to "code that slings out HTML for a web experience" is a dead-end, career wise, imho.
[15:32:39] <@Spongie> <k​i​l​l​j​o​y​> so html5/js/angular
[15:32:56] <sibomots> there are kids in other countries that can do that for 1/10th the cost, while you sleep, it's a commodity.  no $ in it.
[15:33:11] <@Spongie> <k​i​l​l​j​o​y​> enterprise programming is where it's at
[15:34:03] <sibomots> html5 / js / angular => all the same "content for web experience". the money has been and will always be in C/C++.  year after year, the SW engineers who make bank, do it in C++.
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[15:34:32] <sibomots> no bits, no glitz
[15:34:44] <@Spongie> <k​i​l​l​j​o​y​> heh. just the other day, my "friend" was saying that c was an archaic language with no place in today's society
[15:34:59] <electronicboy> doesn't stop it being in demand
[15:34:59] <@Spongie> <k​i​l​l​j​o​y​> or was that a meme?
[15:35:03] <sibomots> ya, well does he run a TRS-80?
[15:35:11] <@Spongie> <k​i​l​l​j​o​y​> he does Visual Basic
[15:35:22] <@Spongie> <k​i​l​l​j​o​y​> and strugles with java
[15:35:33] <sibomots> i've been a SW engineer now for 25 years.  believe me or not, the money is in C++.
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[15:36:39] <sibomots> u can learn java, and do java. but the gigs are few and far between. you can learn python and do python, but you won't ship code in python.  you can build back-end web site code, but so too can 10 kids in India.
[15:37:30] <sibomots> get the CS degree, learn the fundamentals of algorithms, operating systems, memory management, embedded software, C/C++.  that's your foundation.  specialize afterwards.
[15:38:51] <sibomots> you want to test your coding chops, do this:  write void* malloc(size_t n);  and    void* memcpy(void* dest, const void* source);
[15:39:24] <sibomots> because, those are the questions I'll ask you if you come in for an interview
[15:41:54] <@Zidane> sibomots, c/c++ or Fortran cause all the Fortran guys are retiring or dying out yet the software still remains.
[15:42:59] <sibomots> Fortran isn't as archaic as it seems, it has an application.  but i'd say that it could be archaic given that there are other languages that are easier to express the concept in.   but C/C++ are different -- without them, no operating system exists.
[15:43:31] <@Zidane> Agreed
[15:44:03] <@Zidane> Though high-level application development is gaining ground as C# is made multi-platform friendly
[15:44:09] <sibomots> as far as old/retired guys... i guess that applies to fortran.  i don't think it applies to the other languages that are C-like.   Cobol/Fotran/SNOBAL/ etc... all for the history books.
[15:45:06] <sibomots> C# is a decent mix of modernness of "VM" based languages (their CLR), and fits hand in glove with the .NET framework and remote call/ RMI/ CORBA/ RPC etc..  and still retains some C-like syntax.   sugar coats some OOP concepts.
[15:45:27] <sibomots> i don't mind C#, i just won't voluntarily code in it.
[15:45:45] <@Zidane> I've become fond of it though I feel Microsoft tries to sugar it too much
[15:45:52] <@Zidane> Without cleaning up older concepts
[15:46:32] <sibomots> yea it does have a bit of sugar.   Java has just as much sugar if not more, but it's easier to tolerate since it's not Microsoft created.
[15:47:23] <@Zidane> Well I'd debate that actually
[15:47:34] <@Zidane> Java is missing several key things from C#
[15:47:46] <@Zidane> We don't call C# Java and C++'s love baby for nothing
[15:48:26] <sibomots> heh
[15:49:08] <sibomots> opinions aside, all I do is just try to steer towards a language that allows me to express the idea in code that i need to express.  if the language gets in the way, i choose a differnt language.
[15:49:37] <sibomots> right now the concept i need to express is making a lot of money.
[15:49:45] <sibomots> and so far C++ has been the way to that goal.
[15:49:50] <sibomots> ;-)
[15:50:56] <@Zidane> I hear ya
[15:51:25] <@Zidane> I think part of it depends on who you're working for
[15:51:45] <sibomots> yea.  that does have a lot to do with it.
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[15:52:06] <@Zidane> Many many companies have applications wrote in defunct languages (Foxpro for example) or don't have a custom application. Once their eyes are opened to the power of custom software to their needs, they can be quite generous.
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[15:55:10] <sibomots> think of the butter gun analogy.  (High School Physics).  aka the inverse square.  The butter gun analogy is you need to spread butter on a peice of toast.  as the area increases (the square), the surface of butter is thinner and thinner.   to the ratio of 1/x^2    so let x be the proximity to the HW. for small x (firmware, microcode, FPGA, etc..) small x, big importance.   larger x (C#, Java), larger x (Python, JS, Perl, etc..) and so on.
[15:55:37] <sibomots> it all depends on how much butter you want
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[15:57:06] <sibomots> at some point x is so large (implies a lot of cross-platform-ness, etc..) you're writing good code, but it's so abstract.   does that excite you? if so, do it.    if it doesn't, then scale x to a smaller value.  pick your x.
[15:57:35] <@Zidane> Heh, I don't think anyone actually likes writing code (outside java) that works on multiple platforms
[15:57:38] <@Zidane> Its a pain in the ass
[15:57:47] <sibomots> indeed.
[15:58:04] <sibomots> which is why i like firmware
[15:58:13] <@Zidane> I have intentionally ignored Microsoft's silly "universal app" platform as it can't stop drowning itself to be used.
[15:58:41] <sibomots> no comment
[15:58:45] <@Zidane> rofl
[15:58:49] <@Zidane> ;)
[15:59:26] <sibomots> i see why they do it, i see the benefit (to whom it benefits, subject to debate), i agree it's confounding.   but it isn't going away.
[15:59:56] <@Zidane> My issues are they keep remaking the tire before they road test it
[16:00:07] <@Zidane> Because it doesn't test good on the road
[16:00:53] <sibomots> if you only knew the whole story.
[16:01:06] <@Zidane> I'm sure there is quite a tale behind the scenes
[16:01:24] <@Zidane> Even without knowing it, I imagine it has to be quite a clusterfuck
[16:01:31] <electronicboy> But hey, if you use their UWA platform, you can target the desktop AND windows mobi... oh
[16:01:40] <sibomots> Gilgamesh is a mere footnote by comparison.
[16:02:13] <@Zidane> What makes me so sad about Windows Mobile 10 is I seriously enjoyed its UX
[16:02:38] <sibomots> UWA/UWP primer in a nutshell:  OneCore.lib.    Secure(er), Simple(er), Ubiquitious(er).  
[16:02:40] <@Zidane> It felt a HELL of a lot more polished than Android...consistent...fast on ancient hardware in mobile space
[16:04:22] <electronicboy> I also keep meaning to find time to play with C++, when I do finally find time to start playing with it I either can't find where I should bother starting, or start setting stuff up, get distracted and notice it's stupid o-clock; But, even on my compsci course we've not touched c in any shape, java was the goto (and to be fair, most people where struggling with it....), kinda wish there was something on C
[16:06:01] <sibomots> computer science curriculum has changed quite a bit.  in the mid-80s it was all about modularity. modular code.  procedures, functions, etc..  Java's introduction was a shift towards OOP fundamentals as a way to both teach modularity and address the shortcommings in the curriculum for the late 90s/.com era
[16:07:16] <sibomots> in hindsight, they blocked out a bunch of things that would be important for large fields of engineering - memory management, OS design, hardware drivers..  you never see a pointer in Java.  you practically have to take BS EE course work to learn about C these days.
[16:09:17] <sibomots> i teach (informally, not on the payroll) at a local community college.  i teach and re-teach OOP almost every four weeks.   once you feel you grasp: encapsulation, polymorphism, abstraction then whether or not it's Java, C++, C# you won't worry.  the concept will permeate no matter the language.
[16:10:14] <sibomots> that's why i feel that participation in Sponge (among other Java/Minecraft projects you may be involved in), are strongly encouraged.  it's a way to read good code and read bad code.  find the OOP in use, or not in use and learn.
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[16:14:04] <sibomots> so, do every fucking thing Zidane says to do, and you'll be fine.
[16:21:07] <@Zidane> rofl
[16:23:42] <@Spongie> <k​i​l​l​j​o​y​> I'm just probably going to be a support engineer
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